Amen! God be praised for your willingness to preach the gospel in EVERY situation. that is what people need! Whether they think it is what they need or not.

Great post.

It is in typical, emerging narrative form that Bell presents his arguments, and thus, considering it is the very title of the chapter (?) excerpted in CT, the exegesis of Eph 5 nowhwere appears to support the titled argument. His quotation of John 15:13 near the end of the first section of the excerpt in the context foreshadows to the Christ’s own sacrifice–His penal substitutionary atonement for undeserving sinners whom He has chosen to save: You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide… v.16 (=Sovereign election that Pastor Ken is referring to.)

In short, I just found no biblical ground in the CT excerpt to support his proclamation that “people are worth dying for.” Indeed if hypothetically ALL people are worthy, then why are there people who damned to eternal punishment?!

If anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, “What have you that you did not receive?” (1 Cor. 4:7), and, “But by the grace of God I am what I am” (1 Cor. 15:10). If anyone affirms that we can form any right opinion or make any right choice which relates to the salvation of eternal life, or that we can be saved by assent to the preaching of the gospel through our natural powers without the effectual work of the Holy Spirit, who makes all whom He calls gladly and willingly assent to and believe in the truth, he is led astray from the plain teaching of Scripture by exalting the natural ability of man, and does not understand the voice of God who says in the Gospel, “For apart from me you can do nothing” (John 15:5), and the word of the Apostle, “Not that we are competent of ourselves to claim anything as coming from us; our competence is from God” (2 Cor. 3:5).

I’m not going to argue so I’ll just say I’m committed to the Bible so I have no problem with what you say here. I pray this helps because I was not criticizing your view but simply counter-balancing what the Church in general teaches today. In what I am willing to concede is a well-meaning attempt to “win” people to Christ they all too often over-emphasize God’s love for mankind.

Please know I don’t think you were, I am just trying to help others see that Rob Bell’s type of twisited Arminianism (it’s not classis Arminsianism) loves man more than God. So again there would be no need for me to argue with you. Right now mankind is going to increasing experience God’s judgments and I am only trying to help prepare them that men like Bell only make things worse.

To say that God only loves the elect really doesn’t square with Scripture. I am a five-point Calvinist who recognizes that Scripture simply does not say that. It is true that God loves the elect in a way different than the non-elect, but it is not true that he does not the non-elect.

The Bible teaches that God both hates the sinner and loves the sinner. So those committed to the Bible affirm both. Those who do not affirm both show that they are not really committed to the Bible.

Congrats on being accepted to SBTS! And with Scott’s arrival, unfortunately welcome to the internet wars of ad hominem and arrogance. Now you are being instructed how to write your own post. You did well in using a contemporary example of twisted Arminianism in Rob Bell for your illustration. This foolish idea of man’s inherent worth plays well to the flesh and has all but crippled the American Christian Church.

The Lord knows who are His. And as Dr. John MacArthur has pointed out the doctrine of election begins in the Old Testament. “Israel, Mine elect.” God chose them, they didn’t choose Him. Christ chose His disciples, they didn’t choose Him. And God chose us, we didn’t choose Him. Those who have been given eyes to see and ears to hear…know…

And speaking of Apprising Ministries, each time I read thoughts from Ken (such as what he expressed above), I become more and more convinced that either he is a poor representative of the Calvinist position, or the Calvinist position in and of itself is a poor position to take. Sorry, but look at how his idea renders out when spelled out completely: ONLY the Elect are greatly loved by God because of the image of God in them…and the Elect by definition are ONLY those who can come to Christ if God draws them…and God ONLY loves and draws those in whom He sees Christ His son…which makes them the Elect. It is a hoop of theological circular reasoning that ignores verses like 2 Peter 3:9 “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.” I know that the debate between the Calvinist and Arminian camps can be one of nuanced argumentation…so luckily the TULIP crowd isn’t depending on Ken to carry the standard (or are they).

Politely, the elect are but they can only come to Christ if God draws them and they still aren’t worthy. God loves those He deems as the elect because He sees us IN Christ.

Now, we don’t know who these are and must love all men as ourselves, but even that we can’t do on our own as we only love because God first loved us.

I taught on Romans 5 here:
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/the_fear_of_god_1.html

It is indeed a paradox, but one that we must understand with a full-orbed biblical theology. In the beginning when God first made all things in Christ, including Adam and Eve, and it was indeed good (Gen 1). But such goodness was once for all time tainted by the rebellion of our first parents. We acknowledge the LORD’s anguish when He said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.” (Gen 6)

But THANK GOD for the words of Paul in Romans 5 v18 onward:

“Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.“

Thus, any worthiness to be loved that we have in us, any beauty, any good, any chance at glory–it is Christ Himself–He is the mystery that has been kept hidden from ages past, that is, Christ IN us, our only hope of justification, sanctification and glorification!

At the same time, the image of God in man is what God loves. And that makes man worth dying for … not because of what man is because of sin, but because of what he is by creation.

So I think there are two sides to this that are worthy of consideration. On the one hand, we are very bad … worthless and hopeless. On the other hand, we are greatly loved because of the image of God in us.

Did you see my article about Symphony of Scripture:
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2007/03/symphony_of_scr.html

It’s a joint venture with some guys in Australia exactly your age. Maybe you could contribute there once and a while. Just link your articles over there as well as here. Something to pray about as these guys see through the postmodern smokescreen also.

Just a quick warning you might take some incoming rounds for this:
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=1138

Your welcome my young brother - ha!

Still, let us ride to the sound of the enemy’s guns!