Comments on: Doubting Nooma & the Bullhorn http://www.sixsteps.org/2006/10/23/doubting-nooma-the-bullhorn/ Nothing conquers except truth and the victory of truth is love Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:43:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Roderick http://www.sixsteps.org/2006/10/23/doubting-nooma-the-bullhorn/#comment-1371 Roderick Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:33:13 +0000 http://www.sixsteps.org/?p=273#comment-1371 Todd Friel of wayofthemasterradio.com discusses sharing the Gospel especially in the face of so many trendy preachers who try to water down the Gospel into a mere therapy or "relational" message without actually showing how & why a person needs to repent & believe & what happens if they don't. Todd also produced an excellent response to Rob Bell's "Bullhorn Guy". This video presentation is an excellent example of how to present the Gospel. (see presentation within the full article) Listen to the 22 minute audio by following this link: <b><a href="http://thekingdomcome.com/gospel_support" rel="nofollow">http://thekingdomcome.com/gospel_support</a></b> Todd Friel of wayofthemasterradio.com discusses sharing the Gospel especially in the face of so many trendy preachers who try to water down the Gospel into a mere therapy or “relational” message without actually showing how & why a person needs to repent & believe & what happens if they don’t.

Todd also produced an excellent response to Rob Bell’s “Bullhorn Guy”. This video presentation is an excellent example of how to present the Gospel. (see presentation within the full article)
Listen to the 22 minute audio by following this link:

http://thekingdomcome.com/gospel_support

]]> By: Josh Davenport http://www.sixsteps.org/2006/10/23/doubting-nooma-the-bullhorn/#comment-1161 Josh Davenport Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:37:14 +0000 http://www.sixsteps.org/?p=273#comment-1161 Jim, Thank You for your advice Jim. But in the situations listed i do not agree with you and that is just the way it will be. The cool thing is we will always be brothers in Christ apart of the same exact body of believers. If you wish to contact me further please do so via e-mail jdavenport2@cox.net Jim,
Thank You for your advice Jim. But in the situations listed i do not agree with you and that is just the way it will be. The cool thing is we will always be brothers in Christ apart of the same exact body of believers. If you wish to contact me further please do so via e-mail jdavenport2@cox.net

]]> By: Jim http://www.sixsteps.org/2006/10/23/doubting-nooma-the-bullhorn/#comment-1160 Jim Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:08:24 +0000 http://www.sixsteps.org/?p=273#comment-1160 Josh, I did indeed mean Acts 2. If you read that sermon, you would see that it is the direct opposite of the stuff you claim is the real message. It was about as "turn or burn" as you could get. It most definetly wasn't seeker-sensitive. Peter just laid the truth out for all to hear in direct contrast to your method of getting to know people first. And like I said, read your Bible if you think profanity isn't a sin. It's nice of you to apologize, but I suggest you apologize to the ownwer of this blog. It was/is his space you defiled. And while you're at it, apologize to God for thinking you're above His admonitions about coarse talk and crude language. And I'm not going to open this whole argument up again, there is probably thousands of places on the internet that teaches the truth about crude, coarse talk. Look it up for yourself. Consider yourself warned, it's time to grow in Christ, not continue in the old ways. And I don't mean to sound abrasive, I just get tired of the pomo silliness that keeps repeating itself. Josh, I did indeed mean Acts 2. If you read that sermon, you would see that it is the direct opposite of the stuff you claim is the real message. It was about as “turn or burn” as you could get. It most definetly wasn’t seeker-sensitive. Peter just laid the truth out for all to hear in direct contrast to your method of getting to know people first. And like I said, read your Bible if you think profanity isn’t a sin. It’s nice of you to apologize, but I suggest you apologize to the ownwer of this blog. It was/is his space you defiled. And while you’re at it, apologize to God for thinking you’re above His admonitions about coarse talk and crude language. And I’m not going to open this whole argument up again, there is probably thousands of places on the internet that teaches the truth about crude, coarse talk. Look it up for yourself. Consider yourself warned, it’s time to grow in Christ, not continue in the old ways. And I don’t mean to sound abrasive, I just get tired of the pomo silliness that keeps repeating itself.

]]> By: Josh Davenport http://www.sixsteps.org/2006/10/23/doubting-nooma-the-bullhorn/#comment-1147 Josh Davenport Wed, 04 Apr 2007 00:43:06 +0000 http://www.sixsteps.org/?p=273#comment-1147 Acts 2 was what i understood to be Peters first sermon as well yet i do not see how Acts 2 is anywhere near a turn or burn bullhorn guy message of the Gospel. Acts 2 was what i understood to be Peters first sermon as well yet i do not see how Acts 2 is anywhere near a turn or burn bullhorn guy message of the Gospel.

]]> By: Alex Leung http://www.sixsteps.org/2006/10/23/doubting-nooma-the-bullhorn/#comment-1143 Alex Leung Tue, 03 Apr 2007 12:39:11 +0000 http://www.sixsteps.org/?p=273#comment-1143 I think Jim is refering to <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Acts+2" rel="nofollow">Acts 2</a>. I think Jim is refering to Acts 2.

]]> By: Josh http://www.sixsteps.org/2006/10/23/doubting-nooma-the-bullhorn/#comment-1130 Josh Tue, 03 Apr 2007 00:45:23 +0000 http://www.sixsteps.org/?p=273#comment-1130 Jim, Thank you for your opinions and I appreciate the fact that you read my post. However I would like more constructive criticism if you are going bash on what i said. Where in the bible do you say peter's first sermon is. I am not a scolar of the bible nor did I clam to be one. Jim I am on a journey to develop my belief in God just as you are and from what i see in scripture Jesus does not promote division in the body of believers anywhere. So you tell me Jim is our time invested in makeing a video to bash on another believer well spent time? I apoligize if you did not understand my post or if it was not coherent and though profanity is not a sin i do apoligize if it offended you Jim. Jim,
Thank you for your opinions and I appreciate the fact that you read my post. However I would like more constructive criticism if you are going bash on what i said. Where in the bible do you say peter’s first sermon is. I am not a scolar of the bible nor did I clam to be one. Jim I am on a journey to develop my belief in God just as you are and from what i see in scripture Jesus does not promote division in the body of believers anywhere. So you tell me Jim is our time invested in makeing a video to bash on another believer well spent time? I apoligize if you did not understand my post or if it was not coherent and though profanity is not a sin i do apoligize if it offended you Jim.

]]> By: Jim http://www.sixsteps.org/2006/10/23/doubting-nooma-the-bullhorn/#comment-1046 Jim Sat, 31 Mar 2007 01:13:09 +0000 http://www.sixsteps.org/?p=273#comment-1046 Josh, I suggest you read your Bible before you tell others to. Specifically, read Peter's first sermon. That was "bullhorn" preaching at it's finest and nary an attempt at developing any friendships first. Bt the way, maybe you should also learn to express yourself in a coherent manner without profanity if you want to be seen a credible example of Christianity (or anything else). Josh, I suggest you read your Bible before you tell others to. Specifically, read Peter’s first sermon. That was “bullhorn” preaching at it’s finest and nary an attempt at developing any friendships first. Bt the way, maybe you should also learn to express yourself in a coherent manner without profanity if you want to be seen a credible example of Christianity (or anything else).

]]> By: Josh Davenport http://www.sixsteps.org/2006/10/23/doubting-nooma-the-bullhorn/#comment-1018 Josh Davenport Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:08:36 +0000 http://www.sixsteps.org/?p=273#comment-1018 I think that this is a ridiculous website. You call yourselves christians and you want to reach a culture for Christ just as i do but i think the reason you are so offended by Rob Bell's message is because you feel covicted for being the very thing that Rob Bell was talking about "BULLHORN GUY" (No Grace/No Love) How do you expect to reach a culture for Christ when you can't even get along with your peers! Rob Bell believes in God just like you believe in God yet you sit here and waste your time argueing with Rob's message quit wasting your time bashing on God's People and start acting like Jesus because the reason you can't understand Rob Bell's way is because you are not understanding Jesus way. If the Gospel of Christ is preached let it be don't bash on Benny Hine he saves more people than you do for Jesus even though he might have things shown in his revivals that you find suspicious, quite wasting your time missing the point of Jesus! Jesus showed people his message by his love. Take Zachieus for example he was a hated man and Jesus went to visit with Zachieus and enjoy great conversation with Zachieus and in that action he said more than words could describe and was able to change Zachieus heart. Preach the Gospel and if you have to use words. that is what Rob Bell is saying not this Bull Shit message of just be friends and love and don't talk about Christ. Name one instance in Jesus ministry where he just threw the Gospel down peoples throat without first showing them he loved them and cared about them. Here Mr. Todd just pulles somebody off the street and try's to guilt them into the Gospel. That is no where near what scripture is pointing to in Matthew. Go and make disciples (that involves developing a friendship). And for the top of this page. Rob Bell is exaclty right and the emergent church has hit the nail on the head! This is the Kingdom of God where we are living and if you don't see it that way here is a little hint from one layman to another read the BIBLE and while your at it read some more and maybe learn some hebrew or greek and by the time you do that I think you will realize that you spent your entire life bashing on something you heard and believed from somebody who missed the gospel just like you did when you got on the soap box with TODD FRIEL! QUIT LIVING IN SOMEBODY ELSES FAITH!!! Read the word of God, pray to God, ask God what he means then and only then you will have the knowledge you need to stand on the solid ground of your faith!! And when you come to the point of understanding that the emergent church is not about bashing on legalistics it is about loving God and all of his people including the legalistic and the liberals. Make sure you don't come back to hate on TODD FRIEL! Because by hating on him or on Rob Bell you are not showning the world who Christ is. Because Christ only preached hell to Christian not to the unbeliever!!! Don't believe me read the BIBLE! I think that this is a ridiculous website. You call yourselves christians and you want to reach a culture for Christ just as i do but i think the reason you are so offended by Rob Bell’s message is because you feel covicted for being the very thing that Rob Bell was talking about “BULLHORN GUY” (No Grace/No Love) How do you expect to reach a culture for Christ when you can’t even get along with your peers! Rob Bell believes in God just like you believe in God yet you sit here and waste your time argueing with Rob’s message quit wasting your time bashing on God’s People and start acting like Jesus because the reason you can’t understand Rob Bell’s way is because you are not understanding Jesus way. If the Gospel of Christ is preached let it be don’t bash on Benny Hine he saves more people than you do for Jesus even though he might have things shown in his revivals that you find suspicious, quite wasting your time missing the point of Jesus! Jesus showed people his message by his love. Take Zachieus for example he was a hated man and Jesus went to visit with Zachieus and enjoy great conversation with Zachieus and in that action he said more than words could describe and was able to change Zachieus heart. Preach the Gospel and if you have to use words. that is what Rob Bell is saying not this Bull Shit message of just be friends and love and don’t talk about Christ.
Name one instance in Jesus ministry where he just threw the Gospel down peoples throat without first showing them he loved them and cared about them.
Here Mr. Todd just pulles somebody off the street and try’s to guilt them into the Gospel. That is no where near what scripture is pointing to in Matthew. Go and make disciples (that involves developing a friendship).
And for the top of this page. Rob Bell is exaclty right and the emergent church has hit the nail on the head! This is the Kingdom of God where we are living and if you don’t see it that way here is a little hint from one layman to another read the BIBLE and while your at it read some more and maybe learn some hebrew or greek and by the time you do that I think you will realize that you spent your entire life bashing on something you heard and believed from somebody who missed the gospel just like you did when you got on the soap box with TODD FRIEL! QUIT LIVING IN SOMEBODY ELSES FAITH!!! Read the word of God, pray to God, ask God what he means then and only then you will have the knowledge you need to stand on the solid ground of your faith!! And when you come to the point of understanding that the emergent church is not about bashing on legalistics it is about loving God and all of his people including the legalistic and the liberals. Make sure you don’t come back to hate on TODD FRIEL! Because by hating on him or on Rob Bell you are not showning the world who Christ is. Because Christ only preached hell to Christian not to the unbeliever!!! Don’t believe me read the BIBLE!

]]> By: Alex Leung http://www.sixsteps.org/2006/10/23/doubting-nooma-the-bullhorn/#comment-201 Alex Leung Tue, 27 Feb 2007 04:55:40 +0000 http://www.sixsteps.org/?p=273#comment-201 Hi Matt, Thank you for your sharing your thoughts! I definitely agree with you that we all need to work on our Christ-likenss when corecting doctrinal error. In both our orthodoxy and orthopraxy, we must show forth love for each other - especially brothers and sisters in Christ. From all that I've come to know about Rob Bell, I consider him a fellow brother in Christ. However, we also do indeed need to test everything we see, hear and read against the ruler of Scripture & the Spirit. We don't want to quench the Spirit but at the same time we need to be continually discerning (1 Thess 5:19-22; 1 John 4:1-3). For this very reason, I commend to you the following reviews of Bell's written theology. (I don't know if you've read these.) Please do read these and check his book against them. Review by <a href="http://www.reformation21.org/Past_Issues/2006_Issues_1_16_/2006_Issues_1_16_Shelf_LIfe/February_2006/February_2006/148/vobId__2030/pm__338/" rel="nofollow">Reformation21 - Dale Van Dyke</a>. Review by <a href="http://sites.silaspartners.com/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID314526%7CCHID598014%7CCIID2249688,00.html" rel="nofollow">9 Marks - Greg Gilbert</a>. Review by <a href="http://www.svchapel.org/Resources/BookReviews/book_reviews.asp?ID=273" rel="nofollow">SV Chapel - Gary E. Gilley</a>. Review by <a href="http://www.discerningreader.com/title.php?id=538#" rel="nofollow">Diserning Reader (Tim Challies)</a>. For myself, I have realized from my research that it does more harm than good to be reading/using his works in my ministry. And as such, Rev.Ken Silva's strong language is appropriate in proclaiming warnings about such influx of emerging theologies seeping into our younger generation. If you have additional resources that may help me in discerning the works of Rob Bell, please do send them my way. That would be most helpful:) Grace to you brother, Alex Hi Matt,
Thank you for your sharing your thoughts! I definitely agree with you that we all need to work on our Christ-likenss when corecting doctrinal error. In both our orthodoxy and orthopraxy, we must show forth love for each other - especially brothers and sisters in Christ. From all that I’ve come to know about Rob Bell, I consider him a fellow brother in Christ.

However, we also do indeed need to test everything we see, hear and read against the ruler of Scripture & the Spirit. We don’t want to quench the Spirit but at the same time we need to be continually discerning (1 Thess 5:19-22; 1 John 4:1-3).

For this very reason, I commend to you the following reviews of Bell’s written theology. (I don’t know if you’ve read these.) Please do read these and check his book against them.

Review by Reformation21 - Dale Van Dyke.
Review by 9 Marks - Greg Gilbert.
Review by SV Chapel - Gary E. Gilley.
Review by Diserning Reader (Tim Challies).

For myself, I have realized from my research that it does more harm than good to be reading/using his works in my ministry. And as such, Rev.Ken Silva’s strong language is appropriate in proclaiming warnings about such influx of emerging theologies seeping into our younger generation.

If you have additional resources that may help me in discerning the works of Rob Bell, please do send them my way. That would be most helpful:)

Grace to you brother,
Alex

]]> By: Sharpie816 http://www.sixsteps.org/2006/10/23/doubting-nooma-the-bullhorn/#comment-198 Sharpie816 Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:36:12 +0000 http://www.sixsteps.org/?p=273#comment-198 Just to add some food for thought, I have read this posting as well as the linked article from Aprising Ministries. And I must say that I grow concerned at a heart issue. To be honest, I have found the contributions from both Rob Bell and the Way of the Master to be enlightening and challenging to my faith. Yet, I grow concerned at the amount of venom posted in the Aprising Ministries article linked above. In their article they refer to Rob Bell as a "viper" and say that he has "toxic theology." It is their response to Rob's thoughts that causes me great concern. Calling someone a viper is serious thing. Whether we agree with their theology or not, Rob Bell is a brother in the Lord. He is part of our Body as Christians. How can we call our brother a viper? Unless we can, ourselves, sit in the seat of God and judge the condition of his heart. I contrast such statements with Rob's own words from the back of his book. "Test it. Probe it. Do that to this book. Don't swallow it uncritically. Think about it. Wrestle with it. Just because I'm a Christian and I'm trying to articulate a Christian worldview doesn't mean I've got it nailed. I'm contributing to the discussion. God has spoken, and the rest is commentary, right?" Reading statements like this and comparing them to the similarly public statements by Aprising Ministries, I must confess that I find more Christ-likeness in what Rob wrote. Acts 17:11 makes it clear that a Christian, when confronted with a new message must prove it's worth from the scripture. Rob's comments on his own work are in line with this statement. Personally, I don't agree with all of Rob's interpretations. And as a youth pastor, it is my job to teach the young to live out Acts 17:11 with people like Rob Bell and also with Aprising Ministries. I challenge Rob Bell to keep writing and teaching in the spirit of what he wrote on the back of his book. And I challenge his critics to make sure the world knows we are Jesus' disciples by the way we love our brothers. Even those we disagree with. Respectfully, Matt Sharpe Youth Pastor sharpie816@hotmail.com (yes I am publishing my email because like Rob, I don't claim to have things totally figured out and I welcome comments) Just to add some food for thought, I have read this posting as well as the linked article from Aprising Ministries. And I must say that I grow concerned at a heart issue.

To be honest, I have found the contributions from both Rob Bell and the Way of the Master to be enlightening and challenging to my faith.

Yet, I grow concerned at the amount of venom posted in the Aprising Ministries article linked above. In their article they refer to Rob Bell as a “viper” and say that he has “toxic theology.” It is their response to Rob’s thoughts that causes me great concern.

Calling someone a viper is serious thing. Whether we agree with their theology or not, Rob Bell is a brother in the Lord. He is part of our Body as Christians. How can we call our brother a viper? Unless we can, ourselves, sit in the seat of God and judge the condition of his heart.

I contrast such statements with Rob’s own words from the back of his book. “Test it. Probe it. Do that to this book. Don’t swallow it uncritically. Think about it. Wrestle with it. Just because I’m a Christian and I’m trying to articulate a Christian worldview doesn’t mean I’ve got it nailed. I’m contributing to the discussion. God has spoken, and the rest is commentary, right?”

Reading statements like this and comparing them to the similarly public statements by Aprising Ministries, I must confess that I find more Christ-likeness in what Rob wrote.

Acts 17:11 makes it clear that a Christian, when confronted with a new message must prove it’s worth from the scripture. Rob’s comments on his own work are in line with this statement.

Personally, I don’t agree with all of Rob’s interpretations. And as a youth pastor, it is my job to teach the young to live out Acts 17:11 with people like Rob Bell and also with Aprising Ministries.

I challenge Rob Bell to keep writing and teaching in the spirit of what he wrote on the back of his book. And I challenge his critics to make sure the world knows we are Jesus’ disciples by the way we love our brothers. Even those we disagree with.

Respectfully,

Matt Sharpe
Youth Pastor
sharpie816@hotmail.com
(yes I am publishing my email because like Rob, I don’t claim to have things totally figured out and I welcome comments)

]]> By: Shu http://www.sixsteps.org/2006/10/23/doubting-nooma-the-bullhorn/#comment-99 Shu Tue, 24 Oct 2006 05:11:25 +0000 http://www.sixsteps.org/?p=273#comment-99 Interesting post ;) I think Friel had some good things to say, but he also caricatures Bell's stance for sure! ;) Anyways, I think Tim Keller has very useful insights on this in his Desiring God 06 session. I'm realizing more and more that this kind of "one shot" decision for Christ is kind of not something biblical but is the "stereotype" for evangelism. Keller's take (although a bit sociological) consists of "small decisions" which lead to the bigger one... which I think brings in that relational approach that was missing from the "street preacher" mentality. Especially in the postmodern culture... I kind of see that example in Christ and His followers... for sure they left their stuff and followed Him (i.e. fishermen leaving their nets), but I'm pretty sure they did not believe He was God immediately. Their faith was developed through a kind of "smaller" decision process until they proclaimed their belief. I dunno, just some thoughts :) Shalom bro, Shu Interesting post ;) I think Friel had some good things to say, but he also caricatures Bell’s stance for sure! ;)
Anyways, I think Tim Keller has very useful insights on this in his Desiring God 06 session.

I’m realizing more and more that this kind of “one shot” decision for Christ is kind of not something biblical but is the “stereotype” for evangelism. Keller’s take (although a bit sociological) consists of “small decisions” which lead to the bigger one… which I think brings in that relational approach that was missing from the “street preacher” mentality. Especially in the postmodern culture… I kind of see that example in Christ and His followers… for sure they left their stuff and followed Him (i.e. fishermen leaving their nets), but I’m pretty sure they did not believe He was God immediately. Their faith was developed through a kind of “smaller” decision process until they proclaimed their belief.

I dunno, just some thoughts :)
Shalom bro,
Shu

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